--Wondering how impractical it would be to build a short-range (a
couple of hundred feet) radar with a CRT display, to equip a car that
travels in heavy white-out conditions (dust, not snow). Are there any kits
or plans for same? One look at the marine catalogs and I got a little
sticker shock from the off-the-shelf things that have waaay too many bells
and whistles for this app.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : A steaming pile of
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : obscure information...
http://www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On 25 Aug 2007 02:59:01 GMT, steamer <steamer@sonic.net> wrote:

> --Wondering how impractical it would be to build a short-range (a
>couple of hundred feet) radar with a CRT display, to equip a car that
>travels in heavy white-out conditions (dust, not snow). Are there any kits
>or plans for same? One look at the marine catalogs and I got a little
>sticker shock from the off-the-shelf things that have waaay too many bells
>and whistles for this app.

Probably do-able but challenging; remember the 1 foot = 1 nanosecond
thumb rule. This would need some narrow pulses and fast electronics.

"steamer"

> --Wondering how impractical it would be to build a short-range (a
> couple of hundred feet) radar with a CRT display, to equip a car that
> travels in heavy white-out conditions (dust, not snow).


** Very.

> Are there any kits or plans for same?
> One look at the marine catalogs and I got a little
> sticker shock from the off-the-shelf things that have waaay too many bells
> and whistles for this app.


** An infrared viewer may do a better job of seeing through dust.

Warm objects like people, bitumen roads and car exhausts will be seen very
easily

A speed radar gun ( facing straight ahead ) would indicate if you are
approaching a stationary or oncoming vehicle.



....... Phil

"steamer" <steamer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:46cf9af5$0$14077$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> --Wondering how impractical it would be to build a short-range (a
> couple of hundred feet) radar with a CRT display, to equip a car that
> travels in heavy white-out conditions (dust, not snow). Are there any kits
> or plans for same? One look at the marine catalogs and I got a little
> sticker shock from the off-the-shelf things that have waaay too many bells
> and whistles for this app.
>


There are many marine radar units available...

http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/Defa ... Parent=710

On Aug 24, 9:59 pm, steamer <stea...@sonic.net> wrote:
> --Wondering how impractical it would be to build a short-range (a
> couple of hundred feet) radar with a CRT display, to equip a car that
> travels in heavy white-out conditions (dust, not snow). Are there any kits
> or plans for same? One look at the marine catalogs and I got a little
> sticker shock from the off-the-shelf things that have waaay too many bells
> and whistles for this app.
>
> --
> "Steamboat Ed" Haas : A steaming pile of
> Hacking the Trailing Edge! : obscure information...
> http://www.nmpproducts.com
> ---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Hi, Ed. If you're looking for a homebrew radar setup, you could do
worse than look at the Ramsey Electronics SG7 - Speedy Radar Kit.
It's relatively inexpensive, and the radar output itself is pretty
hackable.

I'd recommend using a *very* well regulated supply instead of a wall
wart. Make sure you follow the checkout instructions on the radar
section before you seal it up in the can -- once you enclose it in the
shield, you'll have a hard time fixing it if it isn't right.

http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bi ... on&key=SG7

Good luck
Chris

On Aug 25, 12:59 pm, steamer <stea...@sonic.net> wrote:
> --Wondering how impractical it would be to build a short-range (a
> couple of hundred feet) radar with a CRT display, to equip a car that
> travels in heavy white-out conditions (dust, not snow). Are there any kits
> or plans for same? One look at the marine catalogs and I got a little
> sticker shock from the off-the-shelf things that have waaay too many bells
> and whistles for this app.

Silicon Chip did a home made radar gun project:
http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_107875/article.html

Dave.

You mentioned a crt... you want a picture of whats in front of the
car? That sounds tricky. How about a sector scan display?

Lord Garth <LGarth@tantalus.net> wrote:
>There are many marine radar units available...

>http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/Default.asp?site=1&Section=2&Page=1534&Parent=710
--Note prices not listed; I'd bet dollars to donuts I can't afford
it; that's why I'm going homebrew. No landmarks where I want to use it
either, so GPS maps and other fancy stuff like terrain overlays won't help.


--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : A steaming pile of
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : obscure information...
http://www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

BobG <bobgardner@aol.com> wrote:
>You mentioned a crt... you want a picture of whats in front of the
>car? That sounds tricky. How about a sector scan display?
--Do you mean the kind of thing that displays a slice-of-pie, rather
than a whole circle? Yeah, that's a possibility. Trouble is, 'targets'
(bicycles and other cars) might be coming at me from any angle but they'd be
moving pretty slow in the same kind of weather..

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : A steaming pile of
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : obscure information...
http://www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Chris <cfoley1064@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi, Ed. If you're looking for a homebrew radar setup, you could do
>worse than look at the Ramsey Electronics SG7 - Speedy Radar Kit.
>It's relatively inexpensive, and the radar output itself is pretty
>hackable.
--Oh, hey, forgot about that. I guess one could envision a way to
swivel the thing with a stepper, then output to a crt, yes? Gotta buttonhole
the inventor (met him at a conference once) and see if that's a possibility.

>I'd recommend using a *very* well regulated supply instead of a wall
>wart. Make sure you follow the checkout instructions on the radar
>section before you seal it up in the can -- once you enclose it in the
>shield, you'll have a hard time fixing it if it isn't right.
--That's the easy part!

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : A steaming pile of
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : obscure information...
http://www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On Aug 26, 12:02?pm, steamer <stea...@sonic.net> wrote:
> --Do you mean the kind of thing that displays a slice-of-pie, rather
> than a whole circle? Yeah, that's a possibility. Trouble is, 'targets'
> (bicycles and other cars) might be coming at me from any angle but they'd be
> moving pretty slow in the same kind of weather..
==============================================
Can you describe how a car or bicyle would appear on your crt? You
imagine it to be like a tv picture? You want moving images? Many
pictures per second? Have an algorithm for doing that? Have a pencil
beam transmitter on a gimbal and paint it back and forth? Too
mechanical? The you want a phased array like on an Aegis cruiser? That
would probably cost more than that Foruno marine radr I think.

steamer (steamer@sonic.net) writes:
> Lord Garth <LGarth@tantalus.net> wrote:
>>There are many marine radar units available...
>
>>http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/Default.asp?site=1&Section=2&Page=1534&Parent=710
> --Note prices not listed; I'd bet dollars to donuts I can't afford
> it; that's why I'm going homebrew. No landmarks where I want to use it
> either, so GPS maps and other fancy stuff like terrain overlays won't help.
>
I don't know.

About 1971, Popular Electronics had an article about "personal radar" for
boats, at least one of which was portable (hence could be used in a row
boat if one really wanted it), and while they were pricey at the time,
they were not out of the range of all personal boat owners.

Given that electronics has generally become cheaper, and presumably almost
40 years of having "personal radar" making the notion more acceptable (hence
more demand), such radar may be more in range of the average person
than back in 1971.

Michael

steamer wrote:
> --Wondering how impractical it would be to build a short-range (a
> couple of hundred feet) radar with a CRT display, to equip a car that
> travels in heavy white-out conditions (dust, not snow). Are there any kits
> or plans for same? One look at the marine catalogs and I got a little
> sticker shock from the off-the-shelf things that have waaay too many bells
> and whistles for this app.
>
I would think a re-worked Electronic Tape measure would make sense !
I would think that 12 miles per hour/17.6 ft. per second would be the
upper limit for driving in white-out conditions.

Readout would be listening to the audio output of the Range to Target!

Why would you want to watch a video monitor (scope, radar display) under
these conditions.

You would NEVER drive 60 miles an hour under white-out conditions ???,
That's FATAL. Hitting a tree at 12mph is usually survivable !

Enhancing the Transmitter and receiver for an Acoustic Tape measure
would be relatively simple. I could imagine that Acoustic Clutter would
become a real problem at ranges greater than 100 ft.

Yukio YANO

steamer wrote:
> --Wondering how impractical it would be to build a short-range (a
> couple of hundred feet) radar with a CRT display, to equip a car that
> travels in heavy white-out conditions (dust, not snow). Are there any kits
> or plans for same? One look at the marine catalogs and I got a little
> sticker shock from the off-the-shelf things that have waaay too many bells
> and whistles for this app.
>
I re-read your post !
You are describing, driving in a Convoy !
An Acoustic Tape measure would work great to maintain ~ 20ft spacing in
a dense fog .
Yukio YANO

BobG <bobgardner@aol.com> wrote:
>Can you describe how a car or bicyle would appear on your crt? You
(snip)
--Clueless newbie here; I'd settle for any blobby shape; big for car
and small for bike but would also like to be able to get something for
nonmetallic objects; i.e. pedestrians...

>imagine it to be like a tv picture?
--Not needed; any indication would do..

You want moving images? Many pictures per second?
--One image per sweep?

Have an algorithm for doing that?
--Remember that 'clueless' part?

>Have a pencil beam transmitter on a gimbal and paint it back and forth?
--OK by me; not too mechanical: that's my strong suit.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : A steaming pile of
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : obscure information...
http://www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Yukio YANO <yano@shaw.ca> wrote:
>You are describing, driving in a Convoy !
--Not so much a convoy as a melee! Imagine a space, a mile and a
half in diameter, flat, dusty and filled with all manner of vehicles and
people milling about in no particular direction and you'll have an idea..

>An Acoustic Tape measure would work great to maintain ~ 20ft spacing in
>a dense fog .
--Hmmmm. Sounds interesting! Even better to have the thing mounted
on a helmet so anywhere I 'look' I could tell object nearness, yes?
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : A steaming pile of
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : obscure information...
http://www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Sorry if this is a bit late answer but here it is anyway.

A Slovenian chap - S53MV, build a 4GHz altimeter.
This is a small radar that tells you the distance to objects in front of
the antenna. No fancy sweeps etc, just a raw plot on a cheapo LCD.

http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/radalt/radalt.html


If you place the antenna in the front of your car, you should go
reasonably free of ground clutter.

This little gadget works many hundred yards...

//Dan, M0DFI

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